The annual Amsterdam Documentary Festival (IDFA) is the world’s largest documentary film festival. The Chinese Zhao Qi is a frequent visitor here.
In China's documentary film industry, Zhao Qi is a legend: As a director and producer, he is the first Chinese to receive the Emmy, Evans, Golden Horse, Sundance, and Asia-Pacific Film Awards. "Fan City", "Homeward Train", "Tourist", "China Mayor"... His films directed and supervised by the police are almost classic but controversial. He worked for CCTV for several decades, but he has been familiar with both inside and outside the system. Fluent English and familiarity with international rules made him a media documentary "China's most likely documentary filmmaker". He did not care much about the label: When he met him in Amsterdam, he was laughing with the staff of IDFA's organizing committee. The clothes on the body were printed with the emblem of the St. Denis Film Festival.
At last year’s Amsterdam documentary festival, Zhao Qi was the only Chinese judge. This year’s identity became a “competitorâ€: the new film “Ambulating Dunhuang†(hereinafter referred to as “Dunhuangâ€) was selected for the DocLab competition. This is China. The first VR documentary sent to the International Film Festival was a brand-new attempt by Zhao Qi, who was unconvincing.
Put on VR glasses, hand-held remote control handle, after a wind blows through the eyes, use the handle to pick up the bean oil lamp on the ground to illuminate the dark cave. Where the lights touched on, the story of the murals slowly unfolded, and the flying man-made dance ... "Dun Dunhuang" built a cave model by means of laser scanning. In an immersive and interactive experience, the audience was shown a time not to the tourists. Open Cave 258 in Dunhuang.
In the IDFA exhibition hall in downtown Ahmed, we had a two-hour interview with Zhao Qi.
"No one defines the documentary as not interactive."Reporter: Since when did you first notice VR technology, and you plan to introduce it into documentary production?
Zhao Qi: Probably in 2014, I was exposed to Google Glass and 360° video. In 2015, the idea was born. Is this thing possible to do a bit of film? At that time, the international community has just begun. It is technically very restrictive. VR devices need to fight for themselves, there are a lot of math, algorithm knowledge in it. Those of us who created the origin of this content, and if we are honest about it, we will find it challenging. At that time, a group of people engaged in VR creation in the world actually came from technology companies and people who also had some artistic pursuits. We see those films and feel good, but we don't know how to make it: In the end are two machines, or six or eight? How do we seize it, monocular or both eyes? After the points are finished, the sound is The panoramic view is still not a panoramic view? The time is not long, the amount of data is not large, if the data volume is too large, how to do it in the glasses inside? This is what you will not encounter before the documentary, specific technical problem. Because whether it is a documentary or film and television, technology and channels are already very mature. You just have to do content.
Reporter: So in your opinion, the biggest challenge is to introduce VR into the documentary.
Zhao Qi: First of all, it must be technical. We must be very interested in this technology. Our team was a curious atmosphere as a whole, so I wanted to try it first. When we went out to study and communicated with some organizations, we probably determined the method, but it took a long time to really start to do it. We started to raise money at the end of 2015; we found some money by 2016 and started researching, shooting, and post-production of content until 2017. This is a series of VR movies called "The Adventures."
Another challenge is in the market. When we started shooting, VR was still in the air, and the big platform would still spend 340,000 yuan to buy content in one minute. But after we finished filming, this outlet has passed and all platforms have already paid for the film. We are now mainly promoting to the international community. In China, user payment itself is still in the process of being formed, not to mention VR is a relatively hard content production, relatively low basic users, the platform is difficult to spend a lot of money to buy things.
Reporter: You now look at VR. Is there anything different from the VR you learned when you first started to contact?
Zhao Qi: In the middle we also thought about the definition of VR. For example, is 360° the only form of VR? Now it seems that 360° can only be called 360°. It is just a video, a panoramic extension of video, and it is still in the video system. That is, a person is in an environment and cannot move. You actually sit here and see a screen around you. VR interacts in an environment. Later, there was a movie called Dunhuang. In fact, Dunhuang was not filmed. It is not the same as the overall design and technical requirements of the Adventures. In fact, the two teams are doing it.
Reporter: This panoramic immersive and interactive way of “Dunhuang†seems to you closer to the future development direction of VR?
Zhao Qi: Yes, I think if there is no interaction, I can't talk about VR. In VR, people are related to the environment, and people must be in this environment. One of your actions can lead to a change in the environment. This is the video can not be achieved, and the logic is still not the same with the film.
Reporter: Sounds a little bit closer to the game?
Zhao Qi: If the game itself is defined as such, then it is closer to the game. The problem is that no one has defined the documentary as "unable to interact."
Reporter: So when you use the new language of VR, can you say that you are not just trying to subvert the traditional documentary language, but also trying to subvert the definition of "documentary"?
Zhao Qi: Many things may be cross-border later. You can't say that the documentary must be that way. For example, if you were a reporter, you went to the news scene of the Tianjin explosion, put a machine in it, and then it slammed into it, like the inside of a science fiction film, to sweep out the environment and transfer it immediately. Then, as a user, I look at your live report at home. The equipment I received at home suddenly restored the environment, and I could walk with you and watch the news scene. It cannot be said that this is impossible.
Reporter: But will it also bring such a problem? Take the example of news, why do reporters need to go to the scene to report? The reporter not only wants to restore the scene, but also helps the audience to extract effective information. This requires some professional training. . If you put an ordinary person on the news scene, it may be difficult to find the direction at once.
Zhao Qi: Yes, this is the point of view.
Reporter: Actually, is the director of the documentary film somewhat similar to the role of the reporter? I said one experience yesterday. I watched the Korean VR movie at IDFA yesterday. It put me on a long street view. You can choose which way to go. This did allow me to fully understand what the environment is like, but after a while, I felt a little uncomfortable. Because I don't know where the story is, where I should go. Until a few minutes later I heard the protagonist's high-heeled voice, there is a direction. You would think, uh, the story the director wanted to tell me was there. Do you think that the panorama of VR is actually a weakening of the director's role?
Zhao Qi: Not necessarily, but it may be reinforcement, depending on the audience. As Chinese people, we have been trained from an early age to accept instructions and it is difficult for us to adapt to being overwhelmed in an environment. Just like what you said just now, what do I need to do in VR? Then I hear high-heeled high-heeled shoes. You think it's good, because this may be a message. But some people think that you don't have to let me do anything. You put me in. What do I want to do? The traditional documentary will clearly give you a direction of the story. In a VR environment, I can stay with you. I don't necessarily have to follow you. In fact, it's not that one thing replaces another, it just makes another market. It is as if the difference between the People’s Daily and today’s headlines is that today’s headline, although not edited, is giving you information. The information it gives you and People's Daily are definitely different, but they all have needs.
Reporter: How likely do you think that VR has become a trend in the documentary industry?
Zhao Qi: When we talk about VR, I don't think that we should only discuss the application of documentary in a narrow sense. VR should be a means of cutting into different fields, not a certain media format. When VR first came out, everyone thought that it was an extension of television or film. As a technical means, VR can access many fields, medical care, real estate, and so on. In the future, VR may well achieve great achievements in other fields to stimulate the society’s attention to VR and more capital investment, and then stimulate the development of content creation.
The documentary has a small number of people. When many new technologies are needed, not many people are willing to change directions and learn about a new technology. There is not much ground in China to do this. There is no such thing as a traditional documentary. You cannot rely on documentaries to feed yourself. If the market is uncertain, how can you support yourself with VR? And there are so many technical problems to overcome in the middle.
Reporter: In this field is not mature enough to invest in, you will not worry about the risk of failure? After all, you have been very successful in the mainstream documentary field, if you try to VR failure will not be a lot of pressure? The practice of cross-border with new technologies is more like what the young generation of content creators will do.
Zhao Qi: I think that my current state of affairs is actually more freedom and I should do more things. Because I have achieved some so-called achievements in the traditional field, and younger people must first be successful, first recognized, right? If you choose this industry, you may want to do some kind of After the degree, let's do something else. It's like if you write an article now and you write that you have won a domestic prize for excitement, a Fan Changjiang Prize, and a Pulitzer Prize abroad, then you may feel comfortable changing the style. This is the reason why I may be more interested in young people than young people. It is precisely my mentality that is actually more relaxed. I don't have much pressure to say what kind of aura or achievements I would like to achieve. I am very natural. In turn, this kind of nature leads to more freedom in your creation. I have already arrived here. I created it in a different way and managed him. As for the traditional documentary, I certainly continue to do it and continue to express it. But from a utilitarian point of view, it is actually repeating. With new technologies, new attempts, new expressions, and better service to the audience, isn't it better? I'm not afraid of failure either. What's wrong? What's your success is already there. I would like to encourage more people to try.
"Try VR is my middle-aged anxiety response"Reporter: What kind of background is the creative team of Dunhuang?
Zhao Qi: In fact, the age is not small, 30 years old. Write the code a little younger. In addition to technology, content creation still needs life experience. What has passed and what owes it all depends on various experiences accumulated in life. This is not going to be out of date. In fact, older people should study hard to learn new things more. They should not feel that they have been denied by the time because the experience of life is not overdone. For example, if you want to tell a love story, it is just right to tell the story. If you don’t pass love, he doesn’t know.
Reporter: Life experience will add points to artistic creation. What impressive examples do you have?
Zhao Qi: For example, there is a flying scene in Dunhuang. We, an animated young man, began to make this flying particularly sexy and incomparable. He said this surely many boys like it. But we feel that the extent to which the edge should be appropriate? What is the value that the film should show? What should the audience pay attention to? Too much to be attracted by one thing and ignore other things, is it not that we want to Do you have to do this? It is all after you have certain years of experience. Only when you have certain strengths and judgments, otherwise many things are easy to go. So in the end we changed it. I don’t think it’s okay.
For another example, the book appearing in "Dunhuang" is a two-dimensional slice of animation. We can also make it three-dimensional. Three-dimensional first will cost more money. Second, three-dimensional paintings will look more advanced, but those paintings will all fall from the wall. The wall itself is a wall covering and is flat. It may be better to use two-dimensionality in this place, which can fully reflect the original state of the mural instead of turning it into a very rounded, three-dimensional, three-dimensional animation. This is an option.
This is actually not a purely technical choice but a choice of what you think is valuable. Of course, some people may think this is not good, but it does not matter, I chose it, I think it is such a value.
There are so many things in life that you make decisions, and you are not sure how this decision will bring about an effect in ten years. But life is like this. Why should I do this? As long as you can convince yourself that you are not going to follow the flow and gradually create your style in your creation, it will be enough to attract a group of people who agree with your point of view. Can one's style be eaten by all? No, right?
Reporter: Actually, in terms of time and economics, it is not a small cost. Why did you choose the next thing you want to concentrate on, VR, not anything else? How did this judgment come about?
Zhao Qi: Not to say "select". I just think that this technology still offers more possibilities. We need to do more understanding and try in this system. When you see the movie "Dunhuang", will you want to say that if there are 50 such movies in the world, I would like to buy a set? Parthenon, Louvre, all can do. To put it this way, I still want to provide some content that everyone needs, so that you can immerse yourself in that environment and learn and understand it. The final test is the audience. If the audience says that if you are good, you have a market, so naturally you will have funds coming in, and you will attract more creators. Then it will be very rich. Now it is nothing more than walking at the forefront. It requires those who are most adventurous. I also said just now that at this age I am not afraid of failure and I am not afraid of losing anything.
But I also sometimes feel that trying VR may be a reaction to my middle-aged anxiety. We now often see some 100,000+ articles talking about middle-aged anxiety. I don’t even talk about middle-aged anxiety. But I have an anxiety that if I don’t do something new, I’m going to middle age. Will be shaken by the times. It's not like saying that I'm trying to grasp what I can and worry at the same time, but I think that if there are many things I can't say in this era, I may feel a bit anxious.
Reporter: In your previous interview, you mentioned that after you have a child, you have some new feelings and new understandings of life. What does this mean in concrete terms? Is this reflected in your artistic creation?
Zhao Qi: For every creator, there may be some differences once you have a child. China is now facing great changes. The country is developing very quickly and it will be good to become good, but there are still many challenges and problems. After you have children, you will hope that this country will be better because your children will live in this country. Then you will think, how can I help it become better and more pragmatic. I think many people will become people who want to improve. When I go to create content, it is not just to throw the question out, but to see what is behind it, and to try to think about what to do. This is more valuable than simply talking about problems. Because we want to have a better environment for children, it is this kind of psychology that leads to your physiological changes and psychological reactions.
We also think about how we can provide the younger generation with interesting things that will allow them to learn and understand and let them understand the world. Similar to Dunhuang, when we were young, Dunhuang may be a black and white photograph of history books. You never know what it is like unless you go there. Later you may come to your time, you can find pictures from the computer, but it is only a picture; may also see a documentary, but that is also a flat thing. But like my son and their generation, he asked what Dunhuang is. I can say that coming and coming and watching movies are Dunhuang. It must be different from you and me. He was very young and had a deep understanding of the world and even had opinions.
Reporter: This reminds me that monuments that were destroyed in the Syria-Iraq War, if preserved in the form of VR, are also meritorious.
Zhao Qi: Yes, it is also a kind of preservation. From this perspective, I think it has a fundamental value. It really can still visually restore a sense of realism in its environment and reshape some of our lost memories. The Taliban have destroyed the Bamiyan Buddha, but I can rebuild it in VR. With a relatively small cost, many people can appreciate it again. Basically, everyone still needs such content to feel the diversity and beauty of the world. How to implement it specifically is just a technical iteration.
Reporter: When it comes to the cost, I feel that I must have a good VR experience. It is not just about spending money on production, but also supporting service facilities. As seen in the exhibition hall today, many volunteers are needed to guide the audience on how to use VR.
Zhao Qi: I remember when I first got a digital camera, I didn't know where to put a film (laughs). Now that the audience has those devices in their hands, why do they need volunteers? It's because people do not know what to use. But with the popularity of VR hardware, many people have basic knowledge and will no longer need it. For example, if a VR device has installed 100 million yuan in China, it means that most young people in the first-tier cities will have it. Just like every family has a TV, you certainly don't have to read the manual when you turn on the TV. I think VR is the same afterwards. VR devices will be more and more simplified and the experience will be better and better. In fact, I think this time will not necessarily wait for a long time, it may be three or five years. Now, money is more to do, less money is less, and if you don’t have money, you don’t do it for the time being, but it doesn’t mean that you are withdrawing from it. You are just waiting strategically.
Reporter: What is the main difference between VR content creation in the world and China?
Zhao Qi: There are many creative things in the world, especially in Europe. There are many cultural funds that can give creators many artistic things. However, there is sometimes a gap between art and the market. China is actually in the opposite direction. China does not have a shaped cultural fund. It is all investment. Investment depends on returns, and the fund does not. Investment will always ask, where is your market? I think China is likely to find the market sooner, because this mechanism, all people are forced to think about what the market is going on. For example, I'm not likely to be a very personal, experimental work. I always think that who is going to use this thing in the end? Is there ten people or 100,000 people? If it is for 100,000 people, it will definitely require a reduction of personalization.
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